Speaker: Professor Robert H. Frank Chair: Paul Mason Recorded on 10 November 2011 in Old Theatre, Old Building. Department of Management and BBC Radio 4 public conversation Who was the greater economist–Adam Smith or Charles Darwin? The question seems absurd. Darwin, after all, was a naturalist, not an economist. But Robert Frank, New York Times economics columnist and best-selling author of The Economic Naturalist, predicts that within the next century Darwin will unseat Smith as the intellectual founder of economics. Frank’s new book is entitled The Darwin Economy. In this conversation with Paul Mason, economics editor of BBC 2′s Newsnight, Frank will argue that the reason for this is that Darwin’s understanding of competition describes economic reality far more accurately than Smith’s. The consequences of this fact are profound and our failure to recognize that we live in Darwin’s world rather than Smith’s is putting us all at risk by preventing us from seeing that competition alone will not solve our problems. The good news is that we have the ability to tame the Darwin economy. The best solution is not to prohibit harmful behaviours but to tax them. By doing so, we could make the economic pie larger, eliminate government debt, and provide better public services, all without requiring painful sacrifices from anyone. That’s a bold claim, Frank concedes, but it follows directly from logic and evidence that most people already accept. Robert H. Frank is an economics …
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OK, this is for a serious debate. Lets start with the premises that the country needs economic fixing. To much debt! I think we can all agree on that. Not making any comments on who caused the debt or which party is at fault. So at a static moment in time — right now, today. We have 14.6+ trillion in debt.
So, how do we get out of debt. If you say raise taxes, on who, how much, how much would be raised.
IF you say cut spending, what programs, how much.
Second, how do we create jobs. Be specific. We don’t have manufacturing in this country, we are service based. So where would jobs come from? Who would work them? Who creates them?
Serious comments only please. Not Obama sucks or rebublicans suck answers. Lets be specific. I think if we look at this seriously, we realize that there are no easy solutions.
We have been debating this at work and it has become circular. Want some fresh ideas in the mix.
Rusina —
Put Ron Paul into office — not a serious answer, thats your desire
get rid of Federal Reserve — Ok, one idea, but how does this save money or get the economy back in order?
Close off our borders — and again this does what?
Bring our soldiers home from fighting in war’s that we have no reason to be in. — OK, so where do these people go when they get back. 45,000 troops in Iraq. where will they work? What about the people in their jobs now? If we do that are we not moving spendign from defense to unemployment?
Cut useless spending. — Right, agreed, what programs, what spending, how much?
Stinky:
1. Stop raising the debt ceiling. — thats a political answer, and if we didn’t need to we wouldn’t but I am asking how we get to not needing to.
2. Remove legislation that allows us to outsource jobs. — OK, I agree with this one. But, be aware, jobs are outsorced because labor is cheap. Without outsorcing everything will increase in price thereby lowering standard of living. We want that?
3. America needs to stop CONSUMING and start PRODUCING — YES, agreed, but producing what? Where? By whom?
4. and most importantley… the top 10% must, MUST, MUST pay their fair share. — What is there fair share? How much money will be raised? What will it be used for – reduction of debt or continuation of entitlements?
Aquidian –
Legalization of ALL drugs? Interesting, I can see other problems with that, but out of the box thinking.
universal healthcare — thats Obama care. How is that supposed to help the economy? Nice social idea, but what does it fix economically? Who pays for it? If the governement isn’t that the issue we are in now?
John Smith — I do not agree. The Fed is not the problem. The Fed is there to regulate the currency. If they are abolished, the job still needs to be done and would get done by treasury instead. Abolishing the Fed would cause economic chaos, not solve anything.
Stinky, on your edits.
— Stop borrowing money from China to finance quagmires in Afghanistan. — China buys our bonds on the open market. How are we supposed to limit that?
–But borrowing more money to stop borrowing money is a totally stupid way of thinking. — OK, that is a statement I agree with, so the entire stimulus plan was a bust under that rational
2. With 10% unemployment… yes we need that. Maybe limit outsourcing. — Again, is the middle class ready to loose its middle class luxuries? No one would be able to afford cell phones, clothes, or many items we take for granted.
3. I dunno… Aquidian says drugs… maybe we can start there- Marijuana did wonders for California’s economy. — Not sure selling drugs is the solution.
4. The government takes 30% of my paycheck so lets start there. People who make 10 times what I make pay approx. 15% THATS A PROBLEM.
Stinky, sorry, your last comment n the 15% rate, thats capital gains. Yes, it should probably be raised. But the rich can always pay more, and choose not to.
BTW, just wanted to thank everyone so far. Some great responses, even the ones I have questioned. Keep them coming. Want to see more!
The debt ceiling is serious. This means that people received money from the government will not get paid. There is a chance that some will but many will not. We don’t actually know the impact that this will cause. It may put America into financial ruin. It might be a good idea to invest in gold but it’s hard to say. If American can’t afford to pay the debt then the currency will be inflated to cover the interest, which will cause the value of the dollar to sink. When it sinks, then people withdraw their investments. Allah says not to deal in usury or riba. Now we can see first hand why Allah teaches us this. Back in the old days, the dollar used to be based on the gold standard. Now it is based on nothing. The debt ceiling is the max that they can borrow. They have to come up with a plan to pay some of the debt. America will go into a bigger recession and it will never recover. Maybe if America repents of their sins and become a religious country again, then God will forgive them and help them recover. I guess America should of been using riba free loans.
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